Becky In Fandom ([info]fandom_me) wrote in [info]torchwood_meta,
[info]hellenebright asked me if I'd write a post about writing things - subject matter, rather than style - that make you uncomfortable.I, of course, jumped at the chance.

Please bear with me, since I ramble quite a bit.



A while back I wrote a story that involved major character death. One of the remarks made about the story (by [info]jadesfire2808) was that it didn't flinch. That remark absolutely made my day, because the story might not have flinched, but I sure did.

A lot of my stories contain 'sensitive subject matter' that ranges from kink to rape and death. Those are things that make a lot of people uncomfortable. I'm not exempt from that, just because I'm the one doing the writing. A lot of what I write makes me squirm. Sometimes it even flat-out squicks me.

How I feel about what I'm writing, personally, isn't important. What is important is that those feelings not be reflected in the story.

I think it's something we've all seen. You're reading along happily and suddenly you can just tell that the writer doesn't want to be in that story, scene, or character's head. It's hard to pin down. I can't give you examples of doing it right and doing it wrong like I could if it was a grammar rule. All I can say is that if your storytelling flinches, the readers will know and it is a Bad Thing.

Two things make it bad. The first is that it pulls the reader out of the story. You (probably, usually) don’t want to do that. Likewise, you probably don't want to tell your readers how to feel about an act, a character, or a scene. When the writer’s intent, their feeling, becomes inescapable, it limits the heck out of the reader’s ability to internalize the story and invest in it. Then we're back to square one, and they're being pulled out of the story.

The first and easiest way to avoid that flinch is that if you're not comfortable writing something - don't do it. No one is going to think less of you if you're not writing kinky bondage non-con snuff.

If you really want to push your own boundaries and write it anyway, there are things that make it easier. Most of those things have to do with exposure, understanding, and distance.

Research. Research it into the dirt. This is absolutely the most effective for me. I'm not just talking about the mechanics of *how* things happen, I mean why and where and when and what it feels like when it does. Use every resource you have at your disposal. Talk to people with personal (even second-hand or tangential) experience, go to your local library, search the internet - whatever you can think of.

Research it from every point of view possible, too. If you're writing kink, even if you're writing from the sadists point of view, know why the masochist would like it and what it feels like. If you're writing rape, don't just research the psychological effects of being raped, dig up some profiles of rapists and look into statistics.

Take all that information and go read some fiction that deals with the subject. If you can, read a lot of it. While you're reading, pay attention to what doesn't work for you, and (importantly) why. Figure out where you trigger. Figure out what the line is, both in terms of believability and your own comfort. Know why the subject disturbs you. You don't have to do anything with that knowledge, but know it.

Figure out your Point of View. Knowing what exactly makes you uncomfortable will help with that. There are things I can't write from a close, intimate, point of view. I can write someone dying; I can't write watching someone die. Switching the point of view to another character - an observer, someone who isn't going to experience what squicks me - or to a looser narrative voice gives me some distance. Doesn't make it comfortable, but makes it possible.

Know the motivations of all the characters involved. Even if you're not writing from their POV/inside their head, you still have to figure out what they're getting out of it and why they're doing it. This one's pretty big for me, too. It's remembering that *you* aren't doing these things to the characters. Yes, you've set them up, but you're not dressing the Doctor up in a frilly smock because you want to write cross-dressing. You're doing it because the Master finds the idea of humiliating the Doctor absolutely irresistible. It's a distancing thing, and it's giving yourself permission to be horrified and squicked because it's not you who's doing it.

It also means if, for instance, you're writing Master/Doctor cross dressing and you're using a Doctor POV that, when the Doctor flinches, he's not going to be flinching at this thing you're doing to him. He's going to be flinching at that thing the Master is doing to him. That? That's good. That flinch can stay. If the Doctor flinches away from the writer, there's a problem.

The rest, the actual writing part, is really the same as writing anything else. Do what you need to get it down on paper, and if you start to shy away (and if you're anything like me, you will) revisit your research and especially your motivations. (If the Master *really wants* the Doctor in a dress to humiliate him, it’s unlikely that he's going to change his mind because the Doctor protests - even if you (and the Doctor) *really want* him out of it.).

Editing is a general fic thing, not a flinch thing. We all know about betas and drafts and rewrites. The only difference is that you're going to feel it a lot more, and know a lot better. Your ability to help yourself here is enormous. When you notice the story pulling off to the left, you're writing and it feels like you're trying to write around something, or avoiding, or you just hit a wall - mark it. Go back to it. Ask your beta to look specifically there.


So, basically - expose yourself as much as you can stand, learn everything you can, and use your point of view and the characters to provide some distance.

Also worth reiterating: You are not what you write. Yes, posting some of this stuff can make you feel exposed and nearly as uncomfortable as writing it. Yes, there are people who will confuse you with what you write. Yes, it sucks. It is also wrong.

Your stories are not you. They are not measurements of your morals, ethics, values, politics, sexual preferences or your worth as a person.

This isn't meant to be an inclusive piece of meta. I am sure there are things I haven't elaborated enough, others that I've left out altogether. I'm also sure that some of what works for me won't work for others.

So, talk to me about it. What up there needs to be clarified? What wouldn't (or doesn't) work for you? What does? What'd I forget?
Tags: discussion: writing uncomfortable subjec

  • Post a new comment

    Error

  • 73 comments

[info]_medley_

October 26 2007, 05:57:17 UTC 4 years ago

I can write someone dying; I can't write watching someone die. Switching the point of view to another character - an observer, someone who isn't going to experience what squicks me - or to a looser narrative voice gives me some distance.

That's really helpful to me. Because if I did this while writing, I might feel that I was actually dodging the issue by moving away, but the way you've explained it here, it might keep me from dodging it. I hadn't looked at it that way.

He's going to be flinching at that thing the Master is doing to him. That? That's good. That flinch can stay. If the Doctor flinches away from the writer, there's a problem.

Again, I think that's going to help me. That's a good distinction to make.

(If the Master *really wants* the Doctor in a dress to humiliate him, it’s unlikely that he's going to change his mind because the Doctor protests - even if you (and the Doctor) *really want* him out of it.)

LOL! Good point. And I know I've been there. Well, not with the Doctor in a dress, but...with wanting to help a character out of a situation I put them in.

Your stories are not you. They are not measurements of your morals, ethics, values, politics, sexual preferences or your worth as a person.

Always worth saying again. Or six or seven times.

[info]fandom_me

October 26 2007, 06:17:23 UTC 4 years ago

I'm really glad it helped! I think one of the hardest things for me, too, is remembering it's okay to shuffle around and find a position I can tell the story from. It's just the flinch WHILE you're writing while you do it - and yeah, definitely been there with wanting to help a character out.


Or sixty or seventy on a bad day *G*

Thank you!

[info]misslucyjane

October 26 2007, 06:04:06 UTC 4 years ago

For me, the flinch usually happens because I don't like causing my characters pain. (And I'm including humiliation in that, too. Oh, I hate watching people be embarrassed.)

But that's where "kill your darlings" comes in. That's twofold advice--one, don't be afraid to get rid of some Really Fine Writing if it doesn't serve the story, and two, the point here, sometimes characters have to suffer. Sometimes in the name of earning their happy ending, and sometimes in the name of fulfilling the plot you've begun.

Doesn't make it any easier, though.

I'm working on something now where the ending could go two ways, small or large. I'm worried that the large is too melodramatic, but I'm more worried that the small won't be enough. There's beauty in subtlety, sure, but where does it stop being subtle and start being a copout?

And I have to lay groundwork at the point I'm at now for either ending I chose, and it's hard controlling the flinch. I want to flinch. But I feel it'll be a stronger story if I don't.


No insight here. Just thoughts.

[info]fandom_me

October 26 2007, 06:18:26 UTC 4 years ago

But really good, helpful, thoughts.

The not wanting to be melodramatic is something I struggle with, too. I. Don't want to wangst the characters, or be a drama-whore. So yeah, sometimes gathering up and making yourself go for the big finish is as hard as anything else - and god knows it makes *ME* uncomfortable, at least.

[info]arby_m

4 years ago

[info]zippitgood

October 26 2007, 06:47:11 UTC 4 years ago

I always feel like I'm pulling up short in what I write. Sometimes it's deadlines, other times I know I'm being lazy, and then there are those other times when I know I'm uncomfortable with the things happening.

Thanks for the insights. I hope I can put them into play in my own work.

[info]fandom_me

October 26 2007, 06:51:04 UTC 4 years ago

I really wish there was a magic formula. That 'pulling up short' thing is really, really, frustrating - and I do it a lot. It's really, really nice to know I'm not alone.

And. You're welcome. I hope it helps.

[info]schizojuc

October 26 2007, 09:12:02 UTC 4 years ago

Since I write only slash, I flinch writing 'I love you' scenes. I write it in the end of course but it has to be hidden in sarcasm or jokes or actions. Like guys tend to do. I'm more about the lead up and the established relationships.

[info]fandom_me

October 26 2007, 09:15:30 UTC 4 years ago

You know, I'm not sure I've *ever* written an "I love you scene" in Torchwood/Doctor who. Well, no, that's not true. I wrote this, which is close as I can seem to get. You're right. Sometimes the emotional stuff, or a dyanmic, has as much flinch factor as other stuff.

[info]fatchickengirl

October 26 2007, 11:31:27 UTC 4 years ago

I write from the 'female' perpective eg 'the bottom' in slash writing. coz I just can't quite get my head round the other way simply coz I don't have the equipment! I've only written ever rape as 'reported' to 'remove' it from the reader and myself. I have done death but not of a major/regular character coz I hate it when that happens in other stories and however angst I get I am at heart a fluffy bunny!!! I love reading threesome stuff but never written as I am afriad of getting a bit manual like!

[info]fandom_me

October 26 2007, 18:41:25 UTC 4 years ago

That's exactly the kind of thing I mean! With the female/bottom prespective, I mean. And I'd love threesome stuff, but like you I'd end up with a how-to guide trying to keep track of who's who, i think. Pronouns are great with two people. Add three and you dont' know who's where doing what with which bit of who.

[info]fandom_me

4 years ago

[info]unfeathered

October 26 2007, 11:32:06 UTC 4 years ago

I can't write watching someone die

Yes you can - remember The End? *g* (And yes, I know you only switched POV just before he died, but you did write someone watching some else die.)

Thank you for writing this. It's enormously helpful. I think I'd worked most of it out already but it's always incredibly useful seeing that someone else has worked it out too! Sort of strengthens your own conclusions.

And I would definitely second your advice to research - especially to gain exposure. I've had a few conversations lately with people who are awed that I can write sex scenes - but that's just because I've spent so much time trawling the Internet for good porn! *g* Oh, I have done factual research too, especially because I write slash and obviously have no personal experience of that, but it was reading the porn that made things I shied away even from reading at first into things I can now write. Exposure is very important.

[info]fandom_me

October 26 2007, 18:40:15 UTC 4 years ago

Only barely! I'd have. Choked if I'd written that whole thing from the Doctor's POV.

Yep, definitely. Porn. Porn is good. Good porn is better. It's research, it's interesting, and it definitely gets you over the flinch response to some of the terminology. The word cock used to make me sink through the floor.

...I'm over that now.

[info]fandom_me

4 years ago

[info]fandom_me

4 years ago

[info]fandom_me

4 years ago

[info]lokifan

4 years ago

[info]unfeathered

October 26 2007, 11:40:23 UTC 4 years ago

Comment #2

On a completely separate note from my comment above...

I get worried sometimes that people may think I'm 'flinching' even when I'm not. It occurred to me recently that of all the sex scenes I've posted, there is literally only one of them that I didn't cut away from at the point of penetration. It made me wonder if my readers think that's because I can't/don't want to write about actual intercourse. But the reality is that I have written it ad infinitum in my own personal very lengthy porn story and - well - it's a case now of 'been there, written that', added to which it's just not the most interesting part of sex to me. The build-up is the most fascinating bit, and sometimes the aftermath. So I cut away to keep it interesting, because really there are only so many times I can describe thrusting etc. without it feeling very samey.

The only sex scene I have posted that actually stays with the sex all the way through is the one in Master Plan - Part 5 (the Martha chapter) - and that was because there was so much else going on at the same time that I could get enough time passing without having to keep talking just about the bloomin' thrusting!

Sorry. Rambling again!

[info]fandom_me

October 26 2007, 16:53:26 UTC 4 years ago

Re: Comment #2

I don't think that's much of a problem, really - people like the alternate stuff almost more and yeah. The thrusting and thrusting and - there's a reason I write a lot of kink. That'd be the reason *G*.

[info]fandom_me

4 years ago

[info]fandom_me

4 years ago

[info]theninth

October 26 2007, 13:09:06 UTC 4 years ago

Your stories are not you. They are not measurements of your morals, ethics, values, politics, sexual preferences or your worth as a person.

Can we get this on a tee shirt, badges, stickers, and possibly a giant, interplanetary-sized banner?

I don't know if I've ever flinched. I have a really high tolerance for just about every sort of kink or fetish so even the things I'm not interested in I have a healthy respect for (except infantilism).

I agree with everything you've said. If you're not comfortable writing something, find a graceful way to work around it. Or, if you want to push yourself, do research and find a beta that knows about the subject and learn how to do it without flinching.

[info]fandom_me

October 26 2007, 18:38:10 UTC 4 years ago


Can we get this on a tee shirt, badges, stickers, and possibly a giant, interplanetary-sized banner?


I WOULD LOVE TO. Dear God, I hate that mixup - both from the people doing the writing and the people reading. It's just. Frustrating.

[info]theninth

4 years ago

[info]hellenebright

October 26 2007, 13:44:36 UTC 4 years ago

Last one to the party, I know!!! Thanks so much for posting this - I think it articulates a lot of stuff that people have sloshing around...not so much in the back of their head as in the pit of their stomachs.

The first and easiest way to avoid that flinch is that if you're not comfortable writing something - don't do it. No one is going to think less of you if you're not writing kinky bondage non-con snuff.

A point that cannot be made strongly enough. To be a good author, you don't *have* to write the icky stuff. In fact, if you're not confident as an author, I personally would really rather you didn't - practice things like expression, pacing and so on before you're also trying to describe something you've never done and don't particularly like the idea of.

I'm not just talking about the mechanics of *how* things happen, I mean why and where and when and what it feels like when it does.


Again with the multiple yesss. I *don't* write some things because I don't actually want to put my head in that place(not just non-con - some of the Mapplethorpe stuff really makes me wonder what's going through the mind of a man when he's attempting to lift 5kg with his scrotum, and I'm not sure I want to put my head in *there* either)

So I'm a bit self-limiting on the sex side, but there are things I'll tackle that I know other people flinch at (self-harm, mental health, that kind of stuff) and you can't just describe how, you have to convey why, under what circumstances, what are the effects etc.

[info]fandom_me

October 26 2007, 18:37:25 UTC 4 years ago

It was harder to articulate than I expected - I thought I was going to end up with something nice, with headers. It didn't work, because so much is kicking around on a subconscious or gut level.

To be a good author, you don't *have* to write the icky stuff. In fact, if you're not confident as an author, I personally would really rather you didn't - practice things like expression, pacing and so on before you're also trying to describe something you've never done and don't particularly like the idea of.

Agreed - including the 'can't be made strongly enough' stuff that came before - so I'm reiterating. It's OKAY not to write stuff you don't want to write. I promise no one will care if you don't write dark stuff.

...The fivek with his scrotum just killed me. Yeah, I don't want to go into that head space either. *blinks*

And yeah, exactly. Tackle what you're okay going into - okay, if not comfortable. There's things I won't write, though they're *WEIRD* things people would stare at me about. Like foodplay, cross-dressing, romance, and AU that never meets canon again. Everyone's got stuff.

[info]donutsweeper

October 26 2007, 14:52:20 UTC 4 years ago

Excellent point about writing in your comfort zone. But also that stretching is good. I can't thank you enough for begging for PWP that one time, even though the story I wound up writing for you was barely fluff it was really interesting (for me) to go through the writing process with it.

If you do go outside of your comfort zone having a beta who IS comfortable there is key. In may case [info]unfeathered was an angel, ripping apart what actually worked in the scene and helping me realize what didn't.

If you can, read a lot of it.


Also excellent advice. I discovered an author who wrote a lot of pwp and was able to learn a lot from how they blocked the scene and all of those sorts of important details... of course the scene I would up writing as a result was basically a rape scene, but it really worked. So thanks to the three of you ([info]fandom_me, [info]unfeathered and this other author) I've really become much more comfortable in the skin of a style I'd never have even attempted normally.

Anyway, ramblings aside, excellent meta piece. Write what you're comfortable with or work hard at expanding your comfort boundries in order to make the attempt at something that had been squicky with, because if you feel weird about writing it people will feel weird reading it.

[info]unfeathered

October 26 2007, 18:16:21 UTC 4 years ago

I'm so glad that we've been able to help you along with your writing - just about the coolest thing about betaing is seeing someone who has great ideas but hasn't quite got the skill/grammatical knowledge to write them really well - and you have expanded your horizons so much since I've been working with you!

God, it's hard to say stuff like this without sounding patronising, so sorry if I do. I'm expanding my horizons all the time too - not so much in subject matter but more in the mechanics of writing - with a lot of help from all my betas, including the unofficial ones who comment on my stories! :-)

I think what I was trying to say is: we've all got ourselves a lovely supportive community here and it's helping all of us expand our comfort zones.

[info]fandom_me

4 years ago

[info]joulez217

October 26 2007, 15:53:13 UTC 4 years ago

I will admit, a lot of this, I kinda already put into praticse when I write. But I do find that if I'm writing say torture, I always, always, always write from the POV of the one doing the torturing (I wasn't sure how to spell torturer there.) it's easy for me to do.

I always remember whenever I ever enter a new fandom and start writing, I'm constantly stopping and frowing at what I've written! I'm never comfortable writing for the first time in a new fandom, even TW Fandom I rememeber posting and feeling that uncomfortable with what I'd written I didn't look at any of the comments left for me, for several days!

I find though if something makes me flinch while writing (which isn't a lot of times, cause I know my own limitations on what I can and can not write.) I scrub it all out and try re-writing it, if that doesn't work, then I'll scrub it out and end the scene.

[info]fandom_me

October 26 2007, 18:33:42 UTC 4 years ago

I think a lot of people do it without realizing they're doing it. And yep, me too with new fandoms - or even characters. I really, really, get nervy and careful and wincy when I'm doing something with new people or universe.

[info]joulez217

4 years ago

[info]fandom_me

4 years ago

[info]joulez217

4 years ago

[info]fandom_me

4 years ago

[info]joulez217

4 years ago

[info]crystalshard

October 26 2007, 18:03:17 UTC 4 years ago

*nod* I completely agree with you there. There's certain stuff I'm not comfortable with writing at the NC-17 end of the spectrum, and a few rare things that I won't even read, let alone write.

There is, however, stuff that I will write and am oddly comfortable with. I'll write deathfic. I'll write torture from the POV of the person being tortured, even if I don't linger on it. I'll gleefully manipulate minds and emotions, or try to untangle what's already been damaged. I'll write from the perspective of someone (or something, in the case of the Toclafane) who isn't entirely sane.

Yes, knowing what you will and won't write is very important to a writer. I also agree that what you write isn't always what you like - it's what's best for the story.

[info]fandom_me

October 26 2007, 18:32:52 UTC 4 years ago

I think the last line of yours summed up my entire post - There's a point where you just have to stop and say "I can't do this", and on the flip say "Not my thing, but needs to happen here." Interestingly (and randomly) the POV of the person being tortured is easier for me than the one doing the torture. I can not seem to get far enough into the head of the person doing the torture to write it well - or not flinch out and STOP.

[info]mimarie

October 26 2007, 19:44:36 UTC 4 years ago

Very nicely articulated - thank you.

You are not what you write. Yes, posting some of this stuff can make you feel exposed and nearly as uncomfortable as writing it. Yes, there are people who will confuse you with what you write. Yes, it sucks. It is also wrong.

Getting past the fear of this was just about the hardest thing I've ever done, and that was just the first step in finally writing something, let alone posting it! Putting words on the page that weren't factual or rehashings of authenticated viewpoints, that hadn't been checked, or better dictated, by someone else... very very scary. Stepping outside the zone of 'oh no, I didn't really mean it,' into 'this is what I think, and that's going to have to be good enough' was something that took me a very long time. But it was the beginning of an escape (temporary, obviously, because I'm still pretty close to terrified every time I let anyone see what I've written) from that special hell-dimension of permanent self-doubt (space for one, sound-proofed and well-insulated - must be millions of them, heck, maybe billions...).

I don't have enough posted to say if I do this well, but it's a standard I try hard to live up to in the tens of thousands (actually I think it may have passed the 200,000 word mark, which is simply ridiculous, I know) of words of unposted fic gradually building on my hard drive. As to my own comfort zone... sex is the main writing demon I've discovered so far. I've got a couple of strategic fades-to-black in Employee Benefits (which I am informed worked pretty well, and I was happier with than if I'd tried to elaborate), but the only time I've felt happy with what I'd consider a real sex scene (in that a sexual act is the main action) is where the sex is almost incidental to the meaning of the piece (another Valiant special, currently WIP, only part 1/2 posted, and not yet x-posted) which I've had described as 'very disturbing' - which I'm taking as a great compliment!

Your point about the flinch is very well made. A story that stops short of the emotional pay off (or, conversely, provides an unecessary one) is frustrating to read, losing tension/conflict/sympathy... All those invaluable aspects that may well have been present up to that point, but dissolve as that disbelief suddenly refuses to be suspended any longer. I like to think I push through the flinch, to make things seem real, but the only way I manage to write at all is to suspend my own disbelief in the story - which is really not a good scheme for writing in a busy house, as it's very hard to believe I'm Jack, for instance, with my four year-old asking for bed time stories...

Thank you for this, it's reassuring and thought-provoking. apologies for essay-length comment. I'm just coming down off a bid-writing and planning session at work, and I seem to be stuck in 'lecture' mode :(

[info]fandom_me

October 26 2007, 19:49:07 UTC 4 years ago

It's okay! I loved the comment and you said so much. I don't really quite know how to respond to it all, and I my mouse is being a demon so I hope you'll forgive me for not pulling things out specifically as quotes.

The thing about sex is hard. I think it *always* works better if the sex act is really about something else. What it's about can be the relationship, absolutely, but that something else is usually one of the things I pinpoint as what keeps the characters in character *while they're having sex*. Personal peeve, but I hate cardboard cut out sex, where you could replace who's having it with just about anyone - it loses the investment for me.

I also think you're very right about the pay off and losing sympathy/connection. I hadn't articulated it very well, but you *nailed it*. It's... if you pull the readers away from the characters by forcing it/flinching then they don't get the emotional punch that the writing was leading toward. It's. Almost like frustrating sex, that way, if you'll let me stretch the metaphor and me rambling about sex.

[info]fandom_me

4 years ago

[info]fandom_me

4 years ago

[info]mimarie

4 years ago

[info]dknightshade

October 29 2007, 02:01:55 UTC 4 years ago

Here Via Metafandom

Thank you for a very well-written post. Having written a story that squicked me beyond belief and knowing that there is flinching in that writing, it's really good advice I think.

[info]fandom_me

October 29 2007, 21:20:04 UTC 4 years ago

Re: I wrote a kind of reply to this but it turned too long, so...

Thank you!

[info]hmpf

October 29 2007, 04:02:09 UTC 4 years ago

I wrote a kind of reply to this but it turned too long, so...

... I posted it to my LJ instead:

http://hmpf.livejournal.com/184533.html

[info]fandom_me

October 29 2007, 21:20:13 UTC 4 years ago

Re: I wrote a kind of reply to this but it turned too long, so...

*goes to look*

[info]kattahj

October 29 2007, 07:35:43 UTC 4 years ago

I spent Thursday and Friday at a book festival, and this reminds me of something Anthony Horowitz said: He said that writing is telepathy - if you're bored and miserable writing, the readers will be bored and miserable reading. I guess it goes for discomfort as well. :-) Very interesting post! I have nothing substantial to add, but I'll remember it.

[info]fandom_me

October 29 2007, 07:37:53 UTC 4 years ago

Oh, that's really interesting, too - I love the writing is telepathy thing. It makes a LOT of sense and it s a very concise way of putting into words things I just wasn't going to manage on my own. Thank you!

Anonymous

October 29 2007, 14:01:05 UTC 4 years ago

Im in an rpg and the stories that we come up with are great. I have started to turn them into fanfiction and im getting along fine. We have our own created character and she is in a relationship with owen...thing is the relationship is sexual...ive been told i dont have to write the fic, but i do want to. I have read alot of smut fic, thanks to teaspoon and an open mind, but im still dubious if i can get the mood and the feelings/reactions. I have the story in my head but im scared that if i put it into fic then im gonna balls it up then never write again...
Sucks to be me eh?

[info]fandom_me

October 29 2007, 21:19:52 UTC 4 years ago

It really can be scary, and good luck with it!

[info]dharma_slut

October 29 2007, 21:18:16 UTC 4 years ago

Here via metafic...

And I want to thank you for putting all of this into words. I'll be back with questions and comments-- and I've recced you on my journal.

[info]fandom_me

October 29 2007, 21:19:16 UTC 4 years ago

Re: Here via metafic...

Thank you, so much! I'll look forward to questions or comments or discussion. Meta's fun, darn it.

[info]saldemonium

October 29 2007, 22:27:41 UTC 4 years ago

I found this really, really interesting reading. And I agree with a lot of what you have to say.

If the Master *really wants* the Doctor in a dress to humiliate him, it’s unlikely that he's going to change his mind because the Doctor protests - even if you (and the Doctor) *really want* him out of it.

God, yes. So many times my characters do something I don't like, or don't want them to do. In a piece of original fiction, my main character did something that to this day - years later - makes me flinch and squirm with unease. I was nearly in tears writing it, and I hated it, but I /did/ write it, because I'm not the character and that's what /he/ did. I know that forcing the character into what I want him to do will lessen the story, and most likely be obvious to the reader.

I think more people should, as you say, give themselves permission to be horrified and squicked. I'm sure people like Stephen King are sometimes horrified at what the people in their heads do.

You are not what you write.

This is my biggest peeve in fandom. Writing rape or death or anything else, does not mean I'm a sick person. There are people who just don't get that. I've seen so many people accused of being "fucked up pedophiles" because of something they've written. Or that a woman who writes rapefic is as bad as a real rapist. I mean honestly, do these same people think that Stephen King, to continue the above allegory, is a killer or a psycho?

Your suggestions on switching POV are something I hadn't thought of before. Most times, I just grit my teeth and write whatever it is my characters want to do. I think, however, I might try that in future and see if it works better for me.

Thank you for the thought provoking post. =)

[info]fandom_me

October 29 2007, 22:31:11 UTC 4 years ago

Oh, god yes. I have to literally sit there and grind my teeth through some stuff because I DO NOT want to be doing _____, but the character does and darn it - he's gonna do it.

I really, really, hate being confused with what I write - and it does come down to me writing a lot of things that range from mildly twisted or something that's just not my kink, to flat out disturbing and dark. I am none of the above, thanks.

And thank you for your reply. it's interesting and I hope some of it helps, someday.

[info]mgsmurf

October 30 2007, 19:23:11 UTC 4 years ago

I think distance may be the biggest key. I am not my character and the story is never about me. Not sure, if a story needed it, there's much I would ever shy away from. Perhaps rape, but I think only because the issue would have to be done delicately enough not to be offensive and yet still be haunting.

Character motivation is also important. I think it shows if it's not there and makes a piece not work as well as it should.
Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Facebook Twitter More login options
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…